Wonderful Waterloo Archive

This site is maintained by Sam Nabi as a record of the vibrant Wonderful Waterloo community, which was taken offline in 2014. This site is a partial archive, containing some posts from 2009-2013. To read more about the recovery effort and access the data in a machine-readable format, check out the GitHub page.

Caroline/Erb Intersection

Post #4849 04-09-2010 06:23 PM UrbanWaterloo Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 1,647	Caroline/Erb Intersection Source: 2009 Ortho Imagery 10cm resolution GIS Locator
Post #4850 04-09-2010 07:16 PM Spokes Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener Posts 2,027	And you're right, the grass does need to go. It's a shame they did all that stone work and left it.
Post #4851 04-10-2010 12:32 AM mpd618 Senior Member Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 290	Originally Posted by Spokes And you're right, the grass does need to go. It's a shame they did all that stone work and left it. I don't think I agree. The adjacent section of road is four lanes wide, one-way, and downhill. With this kind of road, it is appropriate to have a buffer to make sure pedestrians are not directly adjacent to fast-moving oblivious traffic.
Post #4852 04-10-2010 01:47 AM taylortbb Member Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, Ontario Posts 97 Taylor Byrnes	Originally Posted by mpd618 I don't think I agree. The adjacent section of road is four lanes wide, one-way, and downhill. With this kind of road, it is appropriate to have a buffer to make sure pedestrians are not directly adjacent to fast-moving oblivious traffic. I'd rather have the wider sidewalk. The extra brick would leave just as much space between me and the cars, but gives me space to pass groups of people or people on bikes. Yes, I can walk on the grass, but I feel more out of place doing so. If a better barrier is required I'd have street furniture, planters, etc. The grass just looks out of place. Also, the traffic isn't moving that fast, this isn't Homer Watson Blvd.
Post #4853 04-10-2010 11:23 AM Spokes Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener Posts 2,027	Ya Im going to go with Taylor on this one. Wider sidewalks are more preferable to grass always in my mind. Both in functionality and aesthetics. Street furniture would look really good in this location actually now that you mention it. Something for Waterloo to think about. That's one thing that I've liked a lot about the King Street Makeover in Kitchener, the street furniture and planters look great.
Post #4854 04-15-2010 09:53 AM WatDot Member Date Feb 2010 Posts 98	Originally Posted by UrbanWaterloo That grass strip needs to go. No kidding! I don't get the rationale for it. It increases the City's maintenance costs, it's not helping wildlife (unless they are trying to kill bunnies), and it looks ridiculous. These grass strips are starting to get to me, I might write the City soon. They make no sense in high density areas.
Post #4855 04-15-2010 04:30 PM Spokes Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener Posts 2,027	Originally Posted by WatDot No kidding! I don't get the rationale for it. It increases the City's maintenance costs, it's not helping wildlife (unless they are trying to kill bunnies), and it looks ridiculous. These grass strips are starting to get to me, I might write the City soon. They make no sense in high density areas. Feel free to sign my name as well
Post #4856 04-15-2010 05:22 PM diego Member Date Jan 2010 Posts 48	Originally Posted by Spokes Feel free to sign my name as well Same here!
Post #4857 04-16-2010 12:28 AM Duke-of-Waterloo Construction Moderator Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 316	Originally Posted by WatDot I might write the City soon. I think you would have to write to the Region rather than the city over this one - Caroline Street here is a Regional Road out of the City's jurisdiction.
Post #4858 04-16-2010 01:00 AM mpd618 Senior Member Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 291	Originally Posted by Duke-of-Waterloo I think you would have to write to the Region rather than the city over this one - Caroline Street here is a Regional Road out of the City's jurisdiction. And while you're at it, please ask to make it a two-way street again.
Post #4859 04-16-2010 08:15 AM Spokes Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener Posts 2,036	Originally Posted by mpd618 And while you're at it, please ask to make it a two-way street again. Maybe WW needs to follow TriTAG and send a couple open letters haha.
Post #4860 04-16-2010 11:38 AM plam Junior Member Date Dec 2009 Posts 28	Originally Posted by mpd618 And while you're at it, please ask to make it a two-way street again. I really don't like Caroline/Erb at all. What I actually hate about it is trying to cross (whilw walking my bike) with all the cars making right turns on red and trying to run me over.
Post #4861 04-16-2010 11:47 AM IEFBR14 Senior Member Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 306	Originally Posted by plam What I actually hate about it is trying to cross (whilw walking my bike) with all the cars making right turns on red and trying to run me over. That won't change if Caroline becomes two-way to Albert. The problem is inconsiderate drivers. I sure wish there was a cure for that. Pedestrians aren't immune to this affliction either. I was waiting to turn right at that intersection yesterday. There were pedestrians waiting to cross. The light turned green. I stayed put waiting for them to cross. I tried to make eye contact but they were oblivious. So after a few seconds I began to make my turn -- just as the pedestrians suddenly began crossing in front of me, again without looking and completely oblivious to what was going on around them. I'm often a pedestrian too. I'm an advocate for pedestrians and for more/better paths, sidewalks and such. But sometimes even I have to shake my head in wonder.
Post #4862 04-16-2010 01:20 PM mpd618 Senior Member Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 291	Originally Posted by IEFBR14 That won't change if Caroline becomes two-way to Albert. The problem is inconsiderate drivers. I sure wish there was a cure for that. If the problem is inconsiderate drivers, then why do they happen to be inconsiderate at Caroline/Erb so much more often than elsewhere? The reason there are so many cars making right turns on red is that going westbound across town necessitates using Bridgeport/Caroline and then turning right onto Erb. If Erb were two-way, much of the east-west through traffic would be using it instead. (Maybe all of this should be moved into a new thread on Caroline/Erb/Bridgeport.)
Post #4863 04-16-2010 01:57 PM IEFBR14 Senior Member Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 306	Originally Posted by mpd618 If the problem is inconsiderate drivers, then why do they happen to be inconsiderate at Caroline/Erb so much more often than elsewhere? Because that's the intersection you cross most often? The reason there are so many cars making right turns on red is that going westbound across town necessitates using Bridgeport/Caroline and then turning right onto Erb. If Erb were two-way, much of the east-west through traffic would be using it instead. OK, I misunderstood which way you were crossing that intersection. Point taken that the more traffic there is that wants to make a right turn at an intersection the more contentious this becomes for pedestrians. There are actually two issues for pedestrians at that interesection because of southbound car traffic that wants to turn right onto Erb west: 1. You're trying to cross Caroline on a green light walking east on the north side of Erb while car traffic going south on Caroline wants to turn right onto Erb westbound on a red light. 2. You're trying to cross Erb on a green light walking south along the west side of Caroline while car traffic going south on Caroline wants to turn right onto Erb westbound on a green light. [I think I've got all the compass directions correct. This really calls for a diagram.] Both situations might be addressed if car traffic could flow in both directions on Erb between King and Caroline, however, that would create problems for cars going east on Erb who want to bear left onto Albert as well as cars wanting to enter/leave the mall parking lot on the Erb side. So while your solution would address one problem it would create new ones. Maybe all of this should be moved into a new thread on Caroline/Erb/Bridgeport. Agreed.
Post #4864 04-16-2010 02:12 PM mpd618 Senior Member Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 291	Originally Posted by IEFBR14 Because that's the intersection you cross most often? Nice try. =) More than just opportunity for a bias, it's an important factor that this is a busy pedestrian intersection. But as an example, I think Erb and Westmount is a better intersection for pedestrians, despite comparable car volumes. Both situations might be addressed if car traffic could flow in both directions on Erb between King and Caroline, however, that would create problems for cars going east on Erb who want to bear left onto Albert as well as cars wanting to enter/leave the mall parking lot on the Erb side. So while your solution would address one problem it would create new ones. Some traffic would go left on Caroline instead. But there should be a signalized intersection for Albert Street and the parking lot entrance (perhaps as one continuous street), and the control should probably be linked to the light for King Street. The current full-speed two-lane turn onto Albert (and the entire curve to Dupont) is incredibly treacherous for pedestrians.
Post #4865 04-09-2010 06:23 PM UrbanWaterloo Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 1,647	April 9, 2010 That grass strip needs to go.
Post #4867 04-16-2010 03:40 PM UrbanWaterloo Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 1,665	Created a new thread and moved all the intersection/streetscape postings here.
Post #4875 04-16-2010 05:48 PM Urbanomicon Transportation & Infrastructure Moderator Date Feb 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 288 "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	I would be in favour of making all the streets in that area two way. As it is, I try to avoid driving in that area because I dislike one-way streets and I often am forced to drive in a circle around several blocks to get where I'm going. Also, because there is not an abundance of one way streets in the Region, a lot of drivers are unsure/uncomfortable about how to treat an intersection between two one way roads (turning left on a red for example). Because of this awkward situation, I think drivers are pre-occupied and spend less time watching for pedestrians.
Post #4879 04-16-2010 07:18 PM Spokes Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener Posts 2,036	Ya I'd go with two ways for both Erb and Bridgeport. You could have one lane going each way, widen the sidewalks and add a bike lane.