Wonderful Waterloo Archive

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Rally For Rails | December 5, 2010 12 - 1 PM @ Waterloo Public Square

Post #19186
11-17-2010 05:48 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails

Some of you may have noticed in the Light Rail Transit thread an idea was floated to hold a rally to show support for LRT. I'm pleased to announce we'll be holding a rally at the Waterloo Public Square from 12-1PM on Sunday December 5, 2010. A new tab (Rally For Rails) has been added to the toolbar to enable quick access to this section.

How Can You Help The Rally?

1. Write letters to the editor (
Post #19283
11-18-2010 11:29 AM
markster

Town Member
Date Oct 2010 Posts 110 Urban Reward Points 92
Facebook event?
Post #19300
11-18-2010 03:55 PM
taylortbb

Town Member
Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, Ontario Posts 268 Urban Reward Points 542
Taylor Byrnes
Quote Originally Posted by markster View Post
Facebook event?
Coming very soon.
Post #19559
11-22-2010 06:39 PM
taylortbb

Town Member
Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, Ontario Posts 268 Urban Reward Points 542
Taylor Byrnes
Little later than planned, but the Facebook event is live: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=165886033433531 .

Today is also the launch of the TriTAG media campaign, so the rally site at http://LRTrally.ca is now also live. Additionally, the TriTAG e-mail form at http://www.tritag.ca/localemail/ is live.
Post #19775
11-25-2010 10:27 AM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,229 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
10 Days Until Rally For Rails!

DID YOU KNOW?

February 25, 1832 - Incorporation of the Champlain and St. Lawrence Railroad to build from Dorchester, now St-Jean, to a point on the St. Lawrence River at or near Laprairie. This is the first Canadian railroad charter.
Post #19983
11-28-2010 05:46 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,229 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
1 Week Until Rally For Rails!

DID YOU KNOW?

May 16, 1853 - The first train in Ontario runs between Toronto and Aurora on the Ontario Simcoe and Huron Railroad Union Company. The name was changed to Northern Railway of Canada on August 16, 1858 and it became part of the Northern and Northwestern Railway on June 6, 1879, now part of Canadian National. The first train was driven by W.T. Hackett who also took the first locomotive into Kansas City.
Post #20080
11-30-2010 08:11 AM
IEFBR14

City Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 743 Urban Reward Points 244
Post #20122
11-30-2010 05:58 PM
DHLawrence

Town Member
Date Mar 2010 Posts 341 Urban Reward Points 74
Could have been worse; at least Outhit didn't write it.
Post #20127
11-30-2010 07:16 PM
benjaminbach

Village Member
Date Oct 2010 Location Waterloo Posts 63 Urban Reward Points 54
Out of curiosity, whats the specific objection to what Brenda and Mark said in the article?

One can be in favour of better & expanded transit while still thinking the current plan is too expensive/not innovative enough (note: I'm not trying to put words in Brenda or Mark's mouth)
Post #20134
11-30-2010 08:54 PM
IEFBR14

City Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 743 Urban Reward Points 244
Quote Originally Posted by benjaminbach View Post
Out of curiosity, whats the specific objection to what Brenda and Mark said in the article?
Brenda's speaking out of both sides of her mouth as she did during the election campaign. If I can mix metaphors, on the one hand she's not opposed to the LRT but on the other hand she's not in favour either. She's trying to pander to both sides. What we need are some one-handed politicians (a) so we know who to vote for and (b) so they'll make some decisions. (Her position on fluoridation was similarly two-sided.)

To continue the metaphor, Mark seems to have lost both of his hands. He doesn't know what to think. He doesn't know what to rethink either. So he wants to pass the buck back to the public. What was his position on LRT during the election?

Meanwhile, as I understand it, the feds and the province have money on the table for an LRT. If our politicians now don't think the LRT is the best solution then why did they lobby so hard to both senior governments for funding it in the first place?

At least Outhit can try to argue that he's being balanced. (Note that I said, "try to argue.")
Post #20135
11-30-2010 09:22 PM
bcwessel

Town Member
Date May 2010 Posts 142 Urban Reward Points 80
"I have always believed that what is originally an abuse does not cease to be one by having become customary."
Quote Originally Posted by IEFBR14 View Post
Brenda's speaking out of both sides of her mouth as she did during the election campaign. If I can mix metaphors, on the one hand she's not opposed to the LRT but on the other hand she's not in favour either. She's trying to pander to both sides. What we need are some one-handed politicians (a) so we know who to vote for and (b) so they'll make some decisions. (Her position on fluoridation was similarly two-sided.)

To continue the metaphor, Mark seems to have lost both of his hands. He doesn't know what to think. He doesn't know what to rethink either. So he wants to pass the buck back to the public. What was his position on LRT during the election?

Meanwhile, as I understand it, the feds and the province have money on the table for an LRT. If our politicians now don't think the LRT is the best solution then why did they lobby so hard to both senior governments for funding it in the first place?

At least Outhit can try to argue that he's being balanced. (Note that I said, "try to argue.")
I believe that it was revealed not too long ago that the funding applications referred to the project as simply some form of rapid transit, meaning that the funding will not be contingent upon the finalized technology. This may, in part, explain the Federal commitment of 1/3 of the total cost, as opposed to any fixed dollar amount. It would be very interesting to view those documents. Where's a local wikileaks when you need one.
Post #20170
12-01-2010 11:48 AM
garthdanlor

Town Member
Date Mar 2010 Location Uglyopolis Posts 302 Urban Reward Points 72
Is anyone daring to speculate on the turnout for the rally?
Post #20178
12-01-2010 01:18 PM
KevinL

Town Member
Date May 2010 Location West-South-West Kitchener Posts 365 Urban Reward Points 134
My Flickr - My Facebook
Quote Originally Posted by garthdanlor View Post
Is anyone daring to speculate on the turnout for the rally?
The Facebook event is up to 225 confirmed, if you want something of a baseline.

I'm sure weather will be a big factor.
Post #20182
12-01-2010 02:39 PM
garthdanlor

Town Member
Date Mar 2010 Location Uglyopolis Posts 302 Urban Reward Points 72
Quote Originally Posted by KevinL View Post
The Facebook event is up to 225 confirmed, if you want something of a baseline.

I'm sure weather will be a big factor.
Not too bad. I avoid Facebook so add 2 more to that. If we can get at least 200-300 people that should fill the square nicely, or at least have enough people to drown out the "anti" protesters. Speaking of which, has there been any word of any contra rallies being organized to answer the Rally for Rails?
Post #20183
12-01-2010 02:55 PM
KLM

Town Member
Date May 2010 Location Kitchener Posts 163 Urban Reward Points 26
Since I work for company with HQ in Portland, Oregon, I asked one of employees what she thinks about LRT. Pretty interesting stuff.

“We have had LRT (called MAX) for many years. They estimate 122,000 people use it everyday for commuting to work, shopping, etc.
We have a very extensive rail system now which spreads out into the suburbs. It follows our interstate highways and most times during rush hour, the traffic is at a stop but the train is passing everyone. It is a very good system here and it pretty much pays for itself. I think there is some tax money involved but I don't think it is much. Also, our federal government covered a large portion of the original funding to get it started.

We have had some crime on MAX, but not too bad for a large city. The system has it's own security officers and they do a good job of watching out for everyone. I have ridden MAX for years and I like it much better when I need to go downtown, because you don't need to drive around trying to find parking and then pay for parking (which is very expensive). I don't ride MAX by myself if it's very late at night. I don't feel comfortable doing that because that is most times when the bad people come out but when Richard is with me, we always take MAX to hockey games and events at the convention center.

Overall, I think it is a good thing for a city and I'm sure your city would benefit from it.”

Have a wonderful day.
Post #20186
12-01-2010 03:32 PM
BuildingScout

Town Member
Date Jul 2010 Posts 202 Urban Reward Points 36
Quote Originally Posted by KLM View Post
Since I work for company with HQ in Portland, Oregon, I asked one of employees what she thinks about LRT. Pretty interesting stuff.

“We have had LRT (called MAX) for many years. They estimate 122,000 people use it everyday for commuting to work, shopping, etc.
We have a very extensive rail system now which spreads out into the suburbs. It follows our interstate highways and most times during rush hour, the traffic is at a stop but the train is passing everyone. It is a very good system here and it pretty much pays for itself. I think there is some tax money involved but I don't think it is much. Also, our federal government covered a large portion of the original funding to get it started.

We have had some crime on MAX, but not too bad for a large city. The system has it's own security officers and they do a good job of watching out for everyone. I have ridden MAX for years and I like it much better when I need to go downtown, because you don't need to drive around trying to find parking and then pay for parking (which is very expensive). I don't ride MAX by myself if it's very late at night. I don't feel comfortable doing that because that is most times when the bad people come out but when Richard is with me, we always take MAX to hockey games and events at the convention center.

Overall, I think it is a good thing for a city and I'm sure your city would benefit from it.”

Have a wonderful day.
You should send this to the record as part of a letter to the Editor.
Post #20222
12-02-2010 09:42 AM
KLM

Town Member
Date May 2010 Location Kitchener Posts 163 Urban Reward Points 26
Quote Originally Posted by BuildingScout View Post
You should send this to the record as part of a letter to the Editor.
I agree. Even though I have never been in Portland , but if given opprotunity I would like to check out their LRT.
According to comments seems it works well, with minor flaws ( i.e. crime).
Post #20228
12-02-2010 01:00 PM
bentonite

Hamlet Member
Date Oct 2010 Posts 5 Urban Reward Points 2
Quote Originally Posted by KLM View Post
I agree. Even though I have never been in Portland , but if given opprotunity I would like to check out their LRT.
According to comments seems it works well, with minor flaws ( i.e. crime).
I've spent a fair amount of time on the MAX in Portland. They've been pretty aggressively upgrading it over the past decade (3 new lines) and I'm quite enamoured with it. Crime was never a concern for me. One time I bought an iMac new in box downtown and was never scared that someone was going to run off with it or try to rob me. (Keep in mind, Multnomah county has 3x the reported per-capita crime rate of Waterloo region) I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about it.
Post #20230
12-02-2010 01:17 PM
IEFBR14

City Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 743 Urban Reward Points 244
Quote Originally Posted by bentonite View Post
One time I bought an iMac new in box downtown and was never scared that someone was going to run off with it or try to rob me...
How does the preference by criminals in Multnomah county for WinTels over Macs compare to Waterloo?

[Sorry, couldn't resist.]
Post #20278
12-03-2010 01:14 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,229 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
2 Days Until Rally For Rails!

DID YOU KNOW?

October 3-4, 1873 - The Grand Trunk Railway converts the gauge of its line between Stratford and Montreal, 421 miles together with 60 miles of sidings, from 5' 6" to the standard gauge of 4' 8 1/2". The track work was completed in 24 hours and occasioned but 16 hours interruption in the use of the main line.
Post #20337
12-04-2010 06:39 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
Rally For Rails Is Tomorrow!

It looks like the weather is going to co-operate (a bit chilly, but at least it won't be raining!):

Quote Originally Posted by Environment Canada
Sunday: Cloudy with sunny periods. Wind northwest 30 km/h. High minus 2.
Post #20338
12-04-2010 07:36 PM
jay

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Bauer Lofts, Waterloo Posts 629 Urban Reward Points 102
Glad to hear that the weather will be co-operating. Should be a fun day tomorrow!
Post #20343
12-05-2010 10:03 AM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
The Rally Starts 2 Hours From Now @ Waterloo Public Square!
Post #20344
12-05-2010 10:46 AM
Waterlooer

Town Member
Date Apr 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 353 Urban Reward Points 323
Home Sweet Region...Waterloo
Getting ready for the rally, let's have our voices be heard!
Post #20345
12-05-2010 01:53 PM
benjaminbach

Village Member
Date Oct 2010 Location Waterloo Posts 67 Urban Reward Points 54
Great turnout and speakers - thanks to everyone who came out to support Transit !
Post #20346
12-05-2010 02:03 PM
markster

Town Member
Date Oct 2010 Posts 114 Urban Reward Points 92
Using my amazing powers, I counted roughly 300 people at the peak.
Post #20347
12-05-2010 02:23 PM
fin2limb

Hamlet Member
Date Jul 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 46 Urban Reward Points 26
Quote Originally Posted by benjaminbach View Post
Great turnout and speakers - thanks to everyone who came out to support Transit !
Agreed.

Looking forward to the media coverage.
Post #20348
12-05-2010 02:27 PM
Trogdor

Hamlet Member
Date Mar 2010 Location London and Waterloo Posts 39 Urban Reward Points 28
Awesome job guys!
Post #20349
12-05-2010 02:33 PM
IEFBR14

City Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 758 Urban Reward Points 244
Yes that was quite a turnout on what was a cold and windy day. (I walked to Waterloo Square with a bitter wind in my face.) As one of the speakers pointed out, right on schedule at noon the clouds opened up and the sun shone on us. Kudos to the organizers who made this possible, including the appeal to divine intervention

The arguments presented by the speakers were all cogently presented

Sadly neither Waterloo's mayor nor the new councillor for the Uptown ward could be bothered to deliver so much as a few words of support, even if only some weak ambivalent political bafflegab
Post #20350
12-05-2010 02:40 PM
jamesbow

Transportation and Infrastructure Moderator
Date May 2010 Location Kitchener, ON Posts 16 Urban Reward Points 12
I arrived a little late and brought my two toddlers. I think it's important that they know what a positive demonstration looks like, and they weren't disappointed. We weren't able to stay the whole time (demonstrating in winter is cold and a little hard for a 5 year old and a 2 year old), but they enjoyed themselves, as did I. I think the turnout was good, and as we went into Waterloo Town Square, I made sure to thank the politicians for coming out. Having representatives from the cities and the regions and the province is as good a signal as any that this project still has life in it.

A big thank you to the organizers for putting this together.

...James
Post #20351
12-05-2010 02:44 PM
Waterlooer

Town Member
Date Apr 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 353 Urban Reward Points 323
Home Sweet Region...Waterloo
This was a huge success and I am so glad we got our voices heard! I was happy to see some Waterloo councilors there, as well as Ken Seiling and the Kitchener mayor. There was 1 protester giving out information on why LRT is not good and lots of the information on it was false, I saw one lady crumple up the paper infront of the "protester" which was nice to see. Great job to all the organizers it was a lovely event and we had great weather!!
Post #20352
12-05-2010 03:03 PM
DHLawrence

Town Member
Date Mar 2010 Posts 341 Urban Reward Points 74
I was approached by him, but when the TriTAG rep came up to me a moment later I asked him if he had somewhere I could "put this trash".

Cold but worthwhile! I hope we get other supporters and fence-sitters to break their silences.

Have any dates been posted for the next sessions? I'm working in TO so I might have to give my opinions by remote control.
Post #20353
12-05-2010 03:11 PM
IEFBR14

City Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 758 Urban Reward Points 244
Quote Originally Posted by Waterlooer View Post
There was 1 protester giving out information on why LRT is not good and lots of the information on it was false

Quote Originally Posted by John Shortreed
Bus is Best – downtown is (and will be) too small for LRT
• LRT will cost over 1 billion, local taxpayers will put up 500 million – for example grade separation at tracks in Kitchener is estimated at under 10 million – will be 30-40 million
• Bus Rapid Transit will be about half the cost of LRT and have lower operating costs
• LRT is a commuter rail system to bring commuters from Elmira – park at mall then go to downtown Kitchener – LRT will not intensify development in the existing cities
• BRT will intensify land use with more stops, will serve Sun Life (LRT has no stop there)
• BRT will serve Bauer Lofts (that’s right LRT has no stop at Bauer Lofts, 144 Park and new Red condos) Where LRT will have one stop, existing King St. Bus has 10.
• UpTown is one of three “Region and Provincial Growth Centers” but it will reach target population and employment before the LRT could be built
• LRT, a commuter rail system, has one stop between UpTown Waterloo and downtown Kitchener –LRT can not intensify development in the prime 2.5 km redevelopment area
• BRT is flexible, if there is an accident it can go around the accident, LRT sits there. Santa Clause Parade and Buskers only possible with BRT not LRT
• If a station is in the wrong place or more stations are needed (they will be needed), BRT can change cheaply as no tracks, curbs, LRT involves major expense.
• BRT would not have curbs and left turns into businesses on King would be possible, with LRT no left turns into Adult Rec Center from King St. north, or the 2 Funeral Parlors.
• BRT can be integrated into some Cross town routes without transfers, while all LRT connections are transfers
• Region’s ridership estimates are 2 to 3 times higher than ridership in Buffalo which has a better system, double the population and more than double the downtown employment
• With realistic ridership the annual LRT subsidy will be at least 10 million more than forecast and few ways to reduce it other than stop running the trains
• Transit expenditures have been increasing by almost 10% a year and revenue by about 2% with most of the new riders being University Students with passes (which is good)
• In 2011 Transit expenditures will be about 80 million per year (operating plus capital), with about 20 million revenue – overall return on investment is 20%.
• And by 2031 cars will be more energy efficient than the LRT.
Google for more about Shortreed. See also Yappa Dingbat Dingbat • Rally for Rails
Post #20354
12-05-2010 03:36 PM
YKF

Hamlet Member
Date Dec 2009 Posts 26 Urban Reward Points 12
^ Wow, what bull sh!t
Post #20355
12-05-2010 03:40 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
Thanks to the two dozen organizers, 13 speakers & 200+ attendees. It was a great rally!

Did anyone happen to snap photos? Normally I love taking a lot of photographs at events, but it's hard when you're also one of the organizers. Feel free to send full size images to: photos@wonderfulwaterloo.com and we'll try to make a nice collage.
Post #20356
12-05-2010 03:46 PM
Shawn

Senior Moderator
Date Jan 2010 Location Kitchener Posts 493 Urban Reward Points 194
Rally For Rails | December 5th, 2010 | 12 - 1PM @ Waterloo Public Square

The Speakers





The Media





The Supporters!







Post #20357
12-05-2010 03:56 PM
Waterlooer

Town Member
Date Apr 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 353 Urban Reward Points 323
Home Sweet Region...Waterloo
Thanks for the pics!
Post #20358
12-05-2010 05:17 PM
isUsername

Hamlet Member
Date Apr 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 45 Urban Reward Points 8
Quote Originally Posted by DHLawrence View Post
I was approached by him, but when the TriTAG rep came up to me a moment later I asked him if he had somewhere I could "put this trash".
When John Shortreed (the protester) came up to me, I was quite happy to pull out the crumpled up paper you gave me and tell him "already got one".
Post #20359
12-05-2010 05:20 PM
DHLawrence

Town Member
Date Mar 2010 Posts 341 Urban Reward Points 74
Good to meet you then! I stayed in the background so I didn't get names for everyone.
Post #20360
12-05-2010 05:59 PM
Brenden

Village Member
Date Jan 2010 Location Kitchener Posts 64 Urban Reward Points 24
Quote Originally Posted by markster View Post
Using my amazing powers, I counted roughly 300 people at the peak.
<Glenn Beck> there were no less then 100,000 people there, and I wont belive any other number</Glenn Beck>
Post #20407
12-06-2010 07:51 AM
benjaminbach

Village Member
Date Oct 2010 Location Waterloo Posts 67 Urban Reward Points 54
Quote Originally Posted by IEFBR14 View Post
She could have asked a council colleague or Carl Zehr or Ken Seiling to acknowledge the rally and express her regrets. Considering that this rally was held in Uptown Waterloo, her absence, including the absence of any mention of her absence, demonstrated her lack of interest in the interests of Waterloo residents.
From The Record:

"Waterloo Mayor Brenda Halloran missed the rally for a family Christmas celebration out of town. In an interview afterwards she said it was good the rally was held, and that having the community engaged in the discussion is important."
Post #20411
12-06-2010 10:14 AM
KLM

Town Member
Date May 2010 Location Kitchener Posts 166 Urban Reward Points 26
any pictures from rally?
Post #20412
12-06-2010 10:22 AM
IEFBR14

City Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 758 Urban Reward Points 244
Quote Originally Posted by The Record
"Waterloo Mayor Brenda Halloran missed the rally for a family Christmas celebration out of town. In an interview afterwards she said it was good the rally was held, and that having the community engaged in the discussion is important."
If she sincerely felt that way would it have been so hard to ask Zehr or Seiling to tell that to the crowd at the rally? The rally was held in her city. Her [in]actions speak louder than her words.

Besides, not everyone who was at the rally also reads The Record. She left a bad impression that I for one won't soon forget.

N.B that she in no way endorses the objectives of the rally. She only thinks it's good that it was held. She'd probably have said the same thing if T4ST had held a rally against the LRT.
Post #20413
12-06-2010 10:26 AM
Shawn

Senior Moderator
Date Jan 2010 Location Kitchener Posts 493 Urban Reward Points 194
I think for the rest of the month, canvassing could possibly be viewed negatively. People are busy now and having door knockers might be met with the same regard as other seasonal door knockers ie: charities canvassing & religion peddlers. Even the TV networks cease their programming over the holidays because they know people's minds are focused on other things.

Maybe another rally should be tentatively planned for after the Regional Report comes out. Perhaps this time and in either Cambridge or Kitchener. A short rally seems to work GREAT. This one wrapped up in about 45 mins. Everyone appeared on time, speakers were brief and effective and it was just long enough for people to stand out in the cold. The skating in the back ground helped which makes me thing one at Kitchener City Hall would be good. haha

In the mean time I agree with the other suggestions to keep up pressure with emails, letters to the editors, attending and/or speaking at council meetings, chatting it up with uptown & downtown and even Conestoga & Fairview Mall merchants, family members. YES! Be that person at all your Christmas parties!
Post #20416
12-06-2010 10:49 AM
isUsername

Hamlet Member
Date Apr 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 45 Urban Reward Points 8
Does anyone know where the rally made it in the print edition of the Record? I haven't seen a copy yet.
Post #20417
12-06-2010 11:20 AM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
Front Page of The Record! That's right, A1! There's the photo of Carl Zehr speaking to the crowd.
Post #20418
12-06-2010 11:28 AM
Waterlooer

Town Member
Date Apr 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 353 Urban Reward Points 323
Home Sweet Region...Waterloo
awesome!
Post #20431
12-06-2010 04:46 PM
Greg Moore

Town Member
Date Dec 2009 Location Westmount/Belmont Villiage Posts 180 Urban Reward Points 60
Twitter - @the_g_spot
As a citizen of Waterloo Region who is in support of LRT, I want to thank every one of you who helped organize or attended the rally. I spent my weekend in Grand River Hospital. In a few years if I have to return, maybe I can take the LRT home, in part, thanks to your efforts.
Post #20575
12-08-2010 10:51 AM
mpd618

City Member
Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 747 Urban Reward Points 132
The Waterloo Chronicle also did a rally write-up. And this is what Mark Whaley (councillor for Waterloo Ward 5) thinks of all of you who attended:

Quote Originally Posted by Waterloo Chronicle
“It took a lot of audacity for three Kitchener politicans to get up there and push the agenda,” Whaley said, referring to Kitchener MPP John Milloy, Kitchener regional councillor Jean Haalboom and Zehr. “It was quite a show.” The rally was little more than a PR stunt, Whaley contends.

“If I had to hazard a guess, there were more Region of Waterloo public relations staff at the rally than there were Waterloo ratepayers,” he said.
Post #20576
12-08-2010 10:52 AM
IEFBR14

City Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 758 Urban Reward Points 244
The Waterloo ChronicLie's version featuring off-the-Mark Whaley's negative spin: Rail rally draws hundreds
Looking to demolish the “myth” that no one in the region wants Light Rail Transit, hundreds of people turned out to the Waterloo public square in support of rapid rails.

“What do we want?” event organizer Tim Mollison yelled to the crowd.

“LRT!” responded to the 200 assembled in front of Waterloo Town Square.

Residents from across the region gathered with students and politicians to call for an LRT system to be built.

They held signs that read “Tech Workers Love Trains” “Roads are not free” and “Buses are a band-aid solution.” The Region of Waterloo has proposed a rail system that will run from Conestoga Mall to Fairview Park Mall, mainly along King Street.

The estimated cost is $790 million. The federal and provincial governments have committed $565 million, leaving a $235- million tab for the region.

Face with growing opposition, many regional politicians distanced themselves from the plan during the October election.

Sunday’s rally was organized by Tri-Cities Transport Action Group, the website Wonderful Waterloo and the University of Waterloo Students Planning Advisory.

“(We) chose to organize the Rally for Rails to get over a lot of the fear, uncertainty and doubt that’s being spread by the opposition,” said Mollison, an executive member of the Tri-Cities Transport Action Group.

“We want to make sure that the lies about LRT are really righted.” T h o s e “ l i e s ” include the claim that rail transit is more expensive in the l o n g - r u n , Mo l l i s o n said.

“The most expensive alternative is to build more roads and to buy buses — the vehicles don’t last as long, you use more drivers to move the same amount of people,” he said.

“What you end up with is congestion.” According to pamphlets TriTAG handed out during the rally, the cost of building roads to accommodate the same number of motorists that the LRT hopes to get in ridership will cost a billion dollars more than the LRT system’s impact on regional taxpayers.

It’s part of a concerted effort to get rid of the perception that most people are opposed to LRT, said Andrew Hilliard of Wonderful Waterloo.

“After the election, there were a number of politicians who were questioning the cost of the system,” Hilliard said.

“We decided to hold a rally to show local councils there is support.” Support for the project is high among students, said Mackenzie Keast, president of the University of Waterloo Students Planning Advisory.

With the growth expected in the region, a rapid transit system will be vital, the fourth-year UW planning student said.

“We have 300,000 more people moving to this region before 2031,” Keast said.

Transit riders are already experiencing packed buses on the routes around the universities, he said.

“Can you imagine the No. 7 or the iXpress 10 years from now?” “If those people aren’t coming to the cores of our region, if economic development isn’t stimulated around a spine of LRT, they’re going to move out to the suburban areas.

“Twenty-five new Hespeler Roads are going to have to be built by 2031 if we don’t have LRT.” L o c a l politicians who support rapid transit also took the opportunity to push the LRT during the rally.

The LRT isn’t just about the state of the region right now, but the future, Seiling said.

“We took a look at what was going on around us in the GTA and we decided we wanted to leave a better legacy for our children,” Seiling said.

Kitchener Mayor Carl Zehr was more blunt.

“Light rail transit is coming,” he said.

That didn’t sit well with Waterloo city councillor Mark Whaley, who attended the rally.

“It took a lot of audacity for three Kitchener politicans to get up there and push the agenda,” Whaley said, referring to Kitchener MPP John Milloy, Kitchener regional councillor Jean Haalboom and Zehr. “It was quite a show.” The rally was little more than a PR stunt, Whaley contends.

“If I had to hazard a guess, there were more Region of Waterloo public relations staff at the rally than there were Waterloo ratepayers,” he said.


Whaley said he talked to 5,000 people on the campaign trail and not one person spoke in favour of LRT.

One Waterloo politician did speak in support of the LRT at the rally — city councillor Angela Vieth.

“I think it’s the best option for the environment,” she said.

Mayor Brenda Halloran did not attend the rally.

Regional council will hold open houses and public input sessions for the LRT in January.
Added re: "Whaley said he talked to 5,000 people on the campaign trail and not one person spoke in favour of LRT."

He probably didn't see or hear the proponents at the door, just as he didn't see or hear them at the rally.
Post #20580
12-08-2010 11:03 AM
Newgrad

Village Member
Date May 2010 Location Kitchener Posts 55 Urban Reward Points 628
“If I had to hazard a guess, there were more Region of Waterloo public relations staff at the rally than there were Waterloo ratepayers,” he said.
That really irks me. I'm upset. What an ignorant and flat out lie. Does he actually believe what he's saying or is he just trying to spin out some lies?

I'm really disappointed in the public discourse presented by the anti-LRT crowd. I suppose its because they don`t have much else to go on but they are really playing up the fear and trying to stick giant wedges in the cracks between our communities of K, W & C. I especially loved how he attacked some Kitchener politicians for showing up in his city. Give me a break.
Post #20581
12-08-2010 11:03 AM
IEFBR14

City Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 758 Urban Reward Points 244
Quote Originally Posted by mpd618 View Post
The Waterloo Chronicle also did a rally write-up. And this is what Mark Whaley (councillor for Waterloo Ward 5) thinks of all of you who attended:
We cross-posted: The Waterloo ChronicLie's version featuring off-the-Mark Whaley's negative spin

Perhaps the Mods could close the Rally thread and point everyone to the regular LRT thread.
Post #20595
12-08-2010 01:19 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
Ridiculous comments by Whaley. There were community members from the arts, communications, non-profit, politics, public sector, real estate, retailers, retirees, technology sector & universities. There were children, teenagers, students, young professionals, middle-aged and seniors. Make no mistake, we had broad community support at the rally.

Quote Originally Posted by IEFBR14 View Post
Perhaps the Mods could close the Rally thread and point everyone to the regular LRT thread.
Once all the rally coverage is out, we'll move discussion over to the LRT thread.
Post #20600
12-08-2010 02:08 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
Quote Originally Posted by Newgrad View Post
I'm really disappointed in the public discourse presented by the anti-LRT crowd. I suppose its because they don`t have much else to go on but they are really playing up the fear and trying to stick giant wedges in the cracks between our communities of K, W & C. I especially loved how he attacked some Kitchener politicians for showing up in his city. Give me a break.
Agreed, does he also think Waterloo politicians shouldn't show up at events in Kitchener? Below is Waterloo Mayor Brenda Halloran @ Kitchener Civic Square for "Bring Ellen To Oktoberfest" back on June 24th. What kind of divisions is Whaley trying to create in this community?

We should also note that Carl Zehr & Jean Haalboom are Regional Councillors, and John Milloy represents the entire region at the provincial cabinet table.

Quote Originally Posted by UrbanWaterloo View Post
Post #20601
12-08-2010 03:21 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
Large crowd gathers for pro LRT rally in Waterloo
The Cord | http://www.thecord.ca/articles/39262



...

“We have a choice. We can continue with urban sprawl like so many other communities have done or we can plan smart for the future,” [MPP John Milloy] said.
Post #20603
12-08-2010 03:31 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
519 Online News for Dec 7, 2010
Conestoga College School of Media and Design

Fast Forward to 1:51 for coverage of the Rally.
Post #20604
12-08-2010 03:34 PM
UrbanWaterloo

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener-Waterloo Posts 3,239 Urban Reward Points 100
Rally For Rails: Don't Derail Our Future
Region’s residents “Rally for Rails”
Conestoga College School of Media and Design
http://www.519onlinenews.com/?p=549 | http://vimeo.com/17566014

Post #20608
12-08-2010 04:28 PM
panamaniac

Town Member
Date Mar 2010 Posts 336 Urban Reward Points 76
Any plans out there for another rally in Kitchener?
Post #20620
12-08-2010 05:20 PM
Spokes

Senior Moderator
Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener Posts 4,264 Urban Reward Points 602
Wow, Whaley really comes off as a piece of work in that doesn't he. Really showing a lot of class. Good thing he's not an elected representative of the city....oh wait.
Post #20638
12-08-2010 08:16 PM
YKF

Hamlet Member
Date Dec 2009 Posts 26 Urban Reward Points 12
I emailed Mark Whaley Today:Hello Mark,
As a resident of Waterloo, I'm disgusted with the misinformation that you're spreading. You're quoted as saying “If I had to hazard a guess, there were more Region of Waterloo public relations staff at the rally than there were Waterloo ratepayers.” As someone who was at the rally, I'd like to say that your comments are completely false. There were certainly more ratepayers at the rally who actually care about the future of the Region as a whole, rather than short-term thinking politicians.
Politicians are the ones who have to make important and tough decisions about the future of our communities. They should be educated on issues. Most councillors, including yourself, seem to have hopped on the opposition bandwagon simply because the public has voiced opposition to the project. I'm hoping that you will educate yourself on the issue of LRT in Waterloo Region, and make an informed decision, rather than listening solely to the largely uneducated public.
I hope that you will stop spreading false information.
Waterloo Ratepayer



His Response:
I don't normally respond to unsigned notes but I'll make an exception in your case John Z.

For the past four years I was Waterloo's representative on the Regional Transportation Master Plan Committee and attended most meetings as we laid out a plan for the future transportation needs of this Region to 2031. No Waterloo member of Regional Council attended any of the meetings as I recall. I voted in favour of the plan as adopted which moves this area towards a transit oriented future.

In my personal life our family has scaled down to using one car and we most frequently use our bikes in summertime. I often walk to work year round. We don't use transit because we choose to live in the core of the city within walking distance of most of our needs. I have been an environmental and social activist in this community for many decades and have received such recognition as the Waterloo Award, Canadian Urban Leadership Award and the June Callwood Award for Volunteerism among other accolades that have punctuated my commitment to quality of life issues in my community.

The article in the newspaper was an honest response to the questions that were posed by the reporter. It was not false information in my opinion. My own position on LRT has shifted from qualified support, (when other levels of government promised capital funding,) to a wait and see attitude as the Region devises a new strategy based on the new funding model that presents itself. Local reporters who have interviewed me are aware of my stance on this issue but do not include it in their stories.


As I said John, I do not usually rise to the bait of unsigned emails. But I appreciate the opportunity to give clarity to my position with respect to the article you found so offensive.

Respectfully,



Mark Whaley

Councillor Ward 5

City of Waterloo

t: (519) 747-8784

c: (519) 635-9436

www.waterloo.ca