This site is maintained by Sam Nabi as a record of the vibrant Wonderful Waterloo community, which was taken offline in 2014. This site is a partial archive, containing some posts from 2009-2013. To read more about the recovery effort and access the data in a machine-readable format, check out the GitHub page.
Personally I'm not a fan of weed, I don't smoke and enjoy having a pint of beer instead. Personal tastes aside, I think everyone has to acknowledge that marijuana's use is fairly widespread. This isn't a 'fringe' drug, but rather something I've seen used by teachers, businessmen, accountants, professionals, etc..
Right now the system is dirty & unsafe (who are people really buying from?), with zero product regulations. Legalizing and having it sold in stores (similar to booze/tobacco) would solve this problem.
I just don't see cannabis hurting people anymore than alcohol or gambling, and feel it should just be legalized and taxed.
P.S. this is just the first in a series of "Election Issue" threads.
Post #28223
04-01-2011 11:22 AM
dunkalunk
Town Member Joined Jan 2010 135 posts
The way I see it, governments are steadily losing the revenue stream of tobaccco to marijuana, and if they are going to replace it with something, it might as well be marijuana.
Post #28225
04-01-2011 11:33 AM
IEFBR14
Transportation Moderator H2OWC Joined Mar 2010 1104 posts
Originally Posted by UrbanWaterloo
P.S. this is just the first in a series of "Election Issue" threads.
Have any of the major parties taken a position on marijuana?
ISTR that about a decade ago Chretien indicated that he'd be in favour of decriminalizing (but not legalizing) marijuana. There may even have been a bill to that effect that died on the order table. But I'm not aware of any current discussion on the subject, other than of course by the Marijuana party.
Post #28229
04-01-2011 01:59 PM
Adrian
Hamlet Member Joined Feb 2010 28 posts
As a Scientist I have to speak against this and highlight the negative effects of marijuana.
Recently Ontario has sued Tobacco Companies for $50 billion to recover some of the health related costs. Studies show that marijuana may be even worse...
I am really surprised that so many here at WW would think legalization is a good idea. I realize this is not a forum for debate, but I'm really interested what your reasoning is.
Post #28230
04-01-2011 02:30 PM
mpd618
Metropolis Member Waterloo, ON Joined Jan 2010 1020 posts
Originally Posted by Adrian
As a Scientist I have to speak against this and highlight the negative effects of marijuana.
There's also massive negative effects to society from it being criminalized: costs of enforcement, people getting ill due to absence of quality control, the whole criminal enterprise that is supported by millions of users.
And it's not like it's difficult for people to get it, or that any harmful effects are of a different magnitude than that of alcohol or tobacco; it's certainly way less harmful than cars are. It's a matter of control and oversight: do we want people using marijuana of unknown provenance and financing much other crime in the process, or would we rather regulate and tax it and be able to openly discuss what regulation policy is most beneficial to society.
Post #28231
04-01-2011 02:46 PM
Adrian
Hamlet Member Joined Feb 2010 28 posts
Originally Posted by mpd618
it's certainly way less harmful than cars are.
The exhausts from cars has very much changed due to advances in the catalytic convertors - it's mostly CO2 and water and all other toxic exahaust have almost been eliminated. This is a problem better technology and science can fix, but the effects of using drugs like marijuana, will hurt us very much in the long run...
Also, please read the article I posted. Since when do cars cause addictive bahaviour, mental problems, anxiety, depression, and the many health effects that come from inhaling carcinogens directly?
Post #28232
04-01-2011 03:16 PM
plam
Town Member Joined Dec 2009 214 posts
Originally Posted by Adrian
Also, please read the article I posted. Since when do cars cause addictive bahaviour, mental problems, anxiety, depression, and the many health effects that come from inhaling carcinogens directly?
Cars are worse, since they affect (for the worse) urban form, which affects everyone. They also hit innocent bystanders pretty often.
Post #28233
04-01-2011 03:32 PM
mpd618
Metropolis Member Waterloo, ON Joined Jan 2010 1020 posts
Originally Posted by Adrian
The exhausts from cars has very much changed due to advances in the catalytic convertors - it's mostly CO2 and water and all other toxic exahaust have almost been eliminated. This is a problem better technology and science can fix, but the effects of using drugs like marijuana, will hurt us very much in the long run...
Marijuana has been around for many decades. We're already in the long run. As for cars, they still kill over 2,000 people a year in Canada and injure tens of thousands more.
Originally Posted by Adrian
Also, please read the article I posted. Since when do cars cause addictive bahaviour, mental problems, anxiety, depression, and the many health effects that come from inhaling carcinogens directly?
If you're going to call yourself a "Scientist", maybe you should be more careful about inferring causality from correlation. The very page you linked says: "However, at this time, it is not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or reflects an attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence."
Post #28235
04-01-2011 04:44 PM
fin2limb
Village Member Kitchener, Ontario Joined Jul 2010 52 posts
Marijuana in moderation will not hurt anyone. I'm a living example. I've also seen it with my own eyes.
Like UrbanWaterloo said above, it's no longer a fringe drug. I have many successful friends with "normal" lives that enjoy getting silly every once and awhile. You would never know by looking at them that they enjoy the odd toke here and there.
I don't condone excessive use of Marijuana. But I don't condone excessive use of anything, i.e., tv, alcohol, saturated fats, sugar, internet, message boards. And all of these things are legal, yet can be harmful if abused.
Bottom line: People are going to smoke it whether it's legal or illegal. Let's just legalize it, regulate it, make it safe and make the government a bit richer.
Post #28237
04-01-2011 06:07 PM
IEFBR14
Transportation Moderator H2OWC Joined Mar 2010 1104 posts
Originally Posted by mpd618
There's also massive negative effects to society from it being criminalized: costs of enforcement, people getting ill due to absence of quality control, the whole criminal enterprise that is supported by millions of users.
That's why I asked if any of the major parties taken a position on marijuana and if so, what they're proposing. Decriminalization should address most of your concerns without necessarily going all the way to legitimization by legalization.
Decriminalization also address issues like the stigmatization that results from a criminal record, e.g. for getting a job in certain industries and positions, crossing the border into the US, etc.
I agree with what you've said, except for this part as it will actually make the government a lot richer.
In the last month Canadians have discussed:
$1-billion G20 summits, but if we hold one every decade that's only $100 million/yr
$300-million bi-annual elections, which works out to $150 million/yr
$20-billion High Speed Rail, just over $1 billion/yr
$30-billion Fighter Jets, just over $1.5 billion/yr
Yet there has been no discussion on cannabis, despite it costing the government $3-4 billion a year in policing and lost revenue. Not only could we pay for one of the 'scandals/initiatives' listed above, we could actually pay for them all simply by legalizing marijuana. $3-4 billion a year would cover a $60-80 billion government program or tax relief (at today's interest rates). Waterloo Region's share would be around $1-billion, which means we could pay for the Cambridge LRT extension immediately (to give a local example).
Post #28251
04-02-2011 10:08 PM
WatDot
Town Member Waterloo Joined Feb 2010 268 posts
Originally Posted by UrbanWaterloo
Yet there has been no discussion on cannabis, despite it costing the government $3-4 billion a year in policing and lost revenue.
The figure is actually growing anually and I believe it more than doubled in the last decade for the "law enforcement" of marijuana (notebaly in California where there's more recent stats). It's estimated that California, it they allowed
I get the sense more politicians are for it than are willing to admit, but know politically that there's just too much of a cloud over the whole thing.
Post #28255
Yesterday 10:03 AM
panamaniac
Town Member Joined Mar 2010 453 posts
Don't use the stuff and have no plans to start, as I suspect that it is as harmful as cigarettes or alcohol if abused, but am more troubled by the uneven application of the law that exists - you can probably smoke a joint on the street with no consequences in Ottawa or Quebec City (for example), but could face criminal penalties for doing the same thing in Red Deer or Moncton (for example). Unfortunately, until they have the debate in the USA and come to some conclusion, it is not possible to either decriminalize or legalize in Canada as the USA will not allow it, as we have already seen.
Post #28256
Yesterday 10:23 AM
IEFBR14
Transportation Moderator H2OWC Joined Mar 2010 1104 posts
Originally Posted by panamaniac
Unfortunately, until they have the debate in the USA and come to some conclusion, it is not possible to either decriminalize or legalize in Canada as the USA will not allow it, as we have already seen.
Originally Posted by UrbanWaterloo 
