Wonderful Waterloo Archive

This site is maintained by Sam Nabi as a record of the vibrant Wonderful Waterloo community, which was taken offline in 2014. This site is a partial archive, containing some posts from 2009-2013. To read more about the recovery effort and access the data in a machine-readable format, check out the GitHub page.

Highway 7/8 Widening & Improvements | Fischer-Hallman Road to Courtland Avenue

Post #4215 04-08-2010 09:10 PM Duke-of-Waterloo Senior Moderator	Highway 7/8 Widening & Improvements: Fischer-Hallman Road to Courtland Avenue Roughly $150 million Construction could start Spring 2011 http://192.237.29.103/web/Region.nsf...df?openelement "The project involves the development of a rehabilitation plan to address any identified operational and safety improvement opportunities and the development of a future highway widening and interchange improvement plan to address the 20-year transportation capacity needs of the highway. The project will include a review and assessment of drainage, landscaping and noise impacts associated with various preliminary design alternatives and the development of preliminary drainage and landscaping concepts and recommendations for noise barrier locations for the selected preliminary design." Notice of Public Information Centre (from 2006): http://192.237.29.103/web/Region.nsf...df?openelement
Post #4216 04-08-2010 09:17 PM Duke-of-Waterloo Senior Moderator Waterloo Joined Jan 2010 1026 posts	The Federal and Provincial governments have committed $2.4 Million to "rehabilitate" Highway 7/8 between Fischer-Hallman Road and Courtland Avenue. This was announced on April 7, 2010 in the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund At Work In Ontario announcement. See press release here. The commitment for Highway 7/8 is the 6th project on the Highway Infrastructure list.
Post #4251 04-09-2010 12:15 PM Urbanomicon Senior Moderator Kitchener, Ontario Joined Feb 2010 1000 posts "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Awesome. It's great to see this project will be starting soon. That section is jammed every rush hour.
Post #4266 04-09-2010 04:33 PM Duke-of-Waterloo Senior Moderator Waterloo Joined Jan 2010 1026 posts	Originally Posted by Urbanomicon Awesome. It's great to see this project will be starting soon. That section is jammed every rush hour. I wouldn't be so sure. $2.4 Million is nowhere near the amount of money the MTO will need to widen the highway to modern standards. Just think of all the overpasses that will need to be expanded, new ramps, new lanes, new illumination, signage...etc. To be honest, I'm skeptical of the investment announced this week and what it will actually do. I think it would cost about $2.4 Million just to resurface the existing four lanes and ramps and maybe patch up a couple of crumbling bridges between the above study limits...[sigh]
Post #4267 04-09-2010 05:58 PM Urbanomicon Senior Moderator Kitchener, Ontario Joined Feb 2010 1000 posts "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Hmm. Good Point. Maybe this is just the payment for the first phase? I don't remember the details ofthis project. There was a bunch of stuff posted on SSP about it as well as some environmental assessments and costing information. If I remember correctly, they were going to re-do the Ottawa on-ramp as well. I'll see if I can find the relevant information.
Post #4434 04-10-2010 11:58 PM Urbanomicon Senior Moderator Kitchener, Ontario Joined Feb 2010 1000 posts "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	I found the relevant thread, but the links to the Waterloo Region website relating to that particular project seem to be broken.
Post #4921 04-17-2010 05:05 PM Duke-of-Waterloo Senior Moderator Waterloo Joined Jan 2010 1026 posts	Finally! An update on this stalled project!! This one is for you urbanomicon. This ad for an upcoming Public Information Centre (PIC)on April 28th at the Concordia Club was in The Record today, on page B2. It looks as if the study area has been revised, and extended by roughly 1 km to the west of Fischer-Hallman Road. http://www.therecord.com/pdfs/20100417/B02.pdf
Post #4933 04-17-2010 11:23 PM Urbanomicon Senior Moderator Kitchener, Ontario Joined Feb 2010 1000 posts "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Originally Posted by Duke-of-Waterloo Finally! An update on this stalled project!! This one is for you urbanomicon. Great find Duke! Awesome to hear that this project hasn't died or become lost in the circular folder that is the government. I should be able to make the PIC. Hopefully they'll have some more information and better visuals.
Post #5581 04-25-2010 09:52 AM Spokes Senior Moderator Kitchener Joined Dec 2009 5291 posts	Better interchanges key to expressway expansion April 23, 2010 Road Ahead column by Jeff Outhit Ontario is still working on its overdue plans to widen the expressway in west Kitchener. But it has not set a start date for construction. It’s important to widen Highway 7/8 between Fischer-Hallman Road and Courtland Avenue. The overwhelmed highway regularly backs up as commuters head to west Kitchener neighbourhoods. The province announced $150 million in funding last year. Ministry of Transportation spokesperson Bob Nichols now says the construction launch is “subject to change based on funding, design, environmental approvals, property acquisition and construction requirements.” When work begins, it will take three years. An open house is planned to solicit public input into the highway design. It’s on April 28 from 4 to 8 p.m. at the Concordia Club at 429 Ottawa St. S. in Kitchener. The proposed expansion includes: Widening from four to six lanes, plus the addition of a median barrier. There would be eight lanes between Courtland and Homer Watson Boulevard. This will ease bottlenecks and improve safety, by keeping out-of-control cars from sliding into oncoming traffic across the grassy median. Planners now intend to widen the road almost two kilometres west of Fischer-Hallman. Remodelled interchanges at Courtland, Homer Watson Boulevard and Fischer-Hallman. Better lighting and some new noise barriers, to better shield adjacent neighbourhoods. All this makes sense. The biggest challenges are the non-standard interchanges, which are generally overwhelmed and rather awkwardly built. Plans for the Fischer-Hallman interchange include the addition of an eastbound on-ramp. This would help ease the traffic mess near the Sunrise shopping centre. At the Homer Watson interchange, local planners have proposed a second on-ramp to the eastbound expressway, at Alpine Road. If approved, it would ease pressure on the eastbound on-ramp at Ottawa Street. It’s overwhelmed, which contributes to headaches at Ottawa and Homer Watson. Greenbrook Drive resident John Innanen has pitched connecting the dead end of Highland Road to the westbound off-ramp, just metres away. This would provide a smoother expressway exit for northbound vehicles. It would likely draw traffic from busy Greenbrook. However, it might increase Highland traffic, while also putting more trucks and cars past Queen Elizabeth Public School, next to the interchange. That’s a trade-off that may not win support. There are no plans to connect the expressway to Westmount Road. The last open house on expressway widening drew 47 people in 2006. A stronger turnout would be helpful as the project inches closer to its launch. Jeff Outhit can be reached at 519-895-5642 or jouthit@therecord.com "eight lanes between Courtland and Homer Watson" Is this really necessary? Im good with 6, but 8?
Post #5588 04-25-2010 11:44 AM Urbanomicon Senior Moderator Kitchener, Ontario Joined Feb 2010 1000 posts "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Originally Posted by Spokes "eight lanes between Courtland and Homer Watson" Is this really necessary? Im good with 6, but 8? There are currently 8 lanes immediately after the 8/85 junction. I imagine they are keeping them up to Homer Watson to eliminate the current problem of drivers exiting from the 8 having to move over two lanes (one ends and one exits at Courtland) in about 500 meters. Not only does this cause backlogs in traffic, but it is very dangerous and a number of accidents have occured in this area. Additionally, the Courtland and Homer Watson exits are very close together (800m?) so the costs for these extra lanes is not huge (relative to the rest of the project). Also, I would estimate about 1/3 of the traffic exits the highway at Homer Watson with relatively little traffic exiting at Courtland. I don't think it wouldn't make sense to end a lane at a relatively little-used offramp. Just my two cents having driven that stretch many, many times.
Post #5596 04-25-2010 07:15 PM Spokes Senior Moderator Kitchener Joined Dec 2009 5291 posts	Ya I guess that's true. Maybe it would make sense.
Post #5601 04-25-2010 10:01 PM garthdanlor Town Member Uglyopolis Joined Mar 2010 315 posts	I wonder how many other cities of less than 350000 have their own 8 lane expressway, and still manage to jam it up during rush hour?
Post #5603 04-25-2010 10:44 PM Waterlooer Town Member Waterloo, ON Joined Apr 2010 479 posts	Originally Posted by garthdanlor I wonder how many other cities of less than 350000 have their own 8 lane expressway, and still manage to jam it up during rush hour? Same, London has no expressways and its traffic is fine. I don't think anyone in London wants a highway, their population is about 350000 people I think.
Post #5605 04-25-2010 10:49 PM Urbanomicon Senior Moderator Kitchener, Ontario Joined Feb 2010 1000 posts "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Originally Posted by garthdanlor I wonder how many other cities of less than 350000 have their own 8 lane expressway, and still manage to jam it up during rush hour? Probably very few. Since the majority of the traffic seems to be going to/from highway 8, I would guess that this stems from the fact that K-W only has three interchanges with the 401 (more like 2.5 really since the 8 only goes East for the time being). That is one interchange per 117,000 people if you're going East, or one interchange per 175,000 people if you're going West. How many other cities of 350,000 only have three interchanges with their nearby 400 series highway? How many require the use of these same 3 roads to get to their neighbouring city (Cambridge)? For comparison, Cambridge, a city of 120,000 people, has 4 interchanges or one per every 30,000 poeple.
Post #5607 04-25-2010 11:48 PM garthdanlor Town Member Uglyopolis Joined Mar 2010 315 posts	Originally Posted by Urbanomicon Probably very few. Since the majority of the traffic seems to be going to/from highway 8, I would guess that this stems from the fact that K-W only has three interchanges with the 401 (more like 2.5 really since the 8 only goes East for the time being). That is one interchange per 117,000 people if you're going East, or one interchange per 175,000 people if you're going West. How many other cities of 350,000 only have three interchanges with their nearby 400 series highway? How many require the use of these same 3 roads to get to their neighbouring city (Cambridge)? For comparison, Cambridge, a city of 120,000 people, has 4 interchanges or one per every 30,000 poeple. It would be interesting to see the actual breakdown of cross town traffic versus to/from 401 traffic. I'm sure the latter is in the majority. Wonder how the link-up with the new Highway 7 will affect volume on the expressway? I would imagine that quite a few commuters continue to use the old 7, especially as it will have a lot less traffic.
Post #5617 04-26-2010 07:38 AM jay Senior Moderator Bauer Lofts, Waterloo Joined Dec 2009 734 posts	Cambridge may have more interchanges to the 401 but the traffic there is 10x worse then KW. I agree they need multiple ways to access the 401 from 8. If they had more I'm sure it would reduce traffic of people working in KW driving home to Cambridge or people leaving to goto London/Toronto. Most of the backup on Highway 8 is due to incompetence, and adding more lanes to a highway doesn't always help.
Post #5619 04-26-2010 09:44 AM Urbanomicon Senior Moderator Kitchener, Ontario Joined Feb 2010 1000 posts "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Originally Posted by Bauer123 Cambridge may have more interchanges to the 401 but the traffic there is 10x worse then KW. It would be interesting to see how the traffic levels compare between the region's interchanges. Does the Provincial Government publish similar traffic studies to those of the region?
Post #5620 04-26-2010 10:49 AM Urban_Enthusiast86 Town Member Joined Mar 2010 336 posts	Originally Posted by Bauer123 Cambridge may have more interchanges to the 401 but the traffic there is 10x worse then KW. I agree they need multiple ways to access the 401 from 8. If they had more I'm sure it would reduce traffic of people working in KW driving home to Cambridge or people leaving to goto London/Toronto. Most of the backup on Highway 8 is due to incompetence, and adding more lanes to a highway doesn't always help. Traffic is only worse in Cambridge for the 2 main north-south arterials, Hespeler and Franklin. Otherwise, there's little difference and KW would actually have busier roads in general. Using this site... http://www12.statcan.ca/english/cens...6=0&GID=520308 I've determined that, from 2001 statscan data (note, the numbers would be significantly higher in 2010): - 10865 people commute from KW to Cambridge for work - 7495 people commute from Cambridge to KW for work However, it doesn't add up that traffic at the Kitchener/Cambridge border would be sooo much worse than at any point at the Kitchener-Waterloo border. The issue is, how many ways are there to travel between Kitchener and Cambridge? Because of the unique geography of that area and the fact that Cambridge hangs off the southeast tail of Kitchener, there are only 3 ways to get between the 2 cities, which are: - Hwy 401 via hwy 8 - King street (Preston) via hwy 8 - Maple Grove Rd via hwy 8 - Hwy 401 or Fountain street via Homer Watson There is also Fountain street through Breslau, but that is out of the way for most people's travel needs. The majority of this traffic crams onto hwy 8 to travel between Kitchener and Cambridge or to get to the 401 to go elsewhere (GTA, etc). Compare that to the seamless border of Kitchener and Waterloo where you have... - Conestoga Parkway - Ira Needles - Fischer Hallman - Westmount - Belmont - King - Weber -Lancaster/Bridgeport - and a whole bunch of residential streets While the total traffic flow might be higher, the people travelling between the cities aren't largely moving down a single roadway.
Post #5623 04-26-2010 11:57 AM Urbanomicon Senior Moderator Kitchener, Ontario Joined Feb 2010 1000 posts "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Originally Posted by Urban_Enthusiast86 - Hwy 401 via hwy 8 - King street (Preston) via hwy 8 - Maple Grove Rd via hwy 8 - Hwy 401 or Fountain street via Homer Watson There is also Fountain street through Breslau, but that is out of the way for most people's travel needs. The majority of this traffic crams onto hwy 8 to travel between Kitchener and Cambridge or to get to the 401 to go elsewhere (GTA, etc). There is also old King Street in Kitchener that runs along the same path as Highway 8; but since this is mainly a two-lane road, its traffic handling potential is limited.
Post #5625 04-26-2010 03:31 PM Urban_Enthusiast86 Town Member Joined Mar 2010 336 posts	Originally Posted by Urbanomicon There is also old King Street in Kitchener that runs along the same path as Highway 8; but since this is mainly a two-lane road, its traffic handling potential is limited. Either way, you get how there is a funnelling effect of traffic in that area and why it has some of the worst traffic in the region.
Post #5760 04-28-2010 07:54 PM Urbanomicon Transportation & Infrastructure Moderator Date Feb 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 288 "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Here are some pictures of the slides from the Public Information Centre meeting today. It looks like you'll get your wish Spokes. It is 6 lanes from Courtland all the way through Fischer-Hallman. The article in the paper is wrong (Mind you there are speed change lanes that run for most of the distance in between).
Post #5761 04-28-2010 07:58 PM Urbanomicon Transportation & Infrastructure Moderator Date Feb 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 288 "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Here are some drawings of the completed project. Courtland Interchange: Homer Watson /Ottawa Interchange: Fischer-Hallman Interchange:
Post #5763 04-28-2010 08:36 PM Spokes Senior Moderator Date Dec 2009 Location Kitchener Posts 2,036	Originally Posted by Urbanomicon Here are some pictures of the slides from the Public Information Centre meeting today. It looks like you'll get your wish Spokes. It is 6 lanes from Courtland all the way through Fischer-Hallman. The article in the paper is wrong (Mind you there are speed change lanes that run for most of the distance in between). Yes!!! Where's the fist pump emoticon? Im glad they're going with a completely separated highway, that's a good thing. And the 6 lanes should be quite sufficient for a while assuming transit steps up Thanks for all these pictures you took! I (and im sure others) definitely appreciate it.
Post #5769 04-28-2010 10:11 PM taylortbb Senior Member Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, Ontario Posts 101 Taylor Byrnes	They say major rehabilitation and/or widening for the CNR overpass, but they don't go into any more detail. The rapid transit EA calls for that overpass to be completely replaced, as it would have to be tripled in width to accommodate the existing CN line plus two light rail lines. I hope they don't fix it up only to tear it down and replace it 2 years later.
Post #5780 04-28-2010 10:43 PM Waterlooer Member Date Apr 2010 Location K/W Posts 58	Yes, thanks a lot! This is a very exciting and needed project. So construction is suppose to begin next summer? The highway will look a lot better when the construction is done. The next highway expantion should be 85 I guess, it only gets conjected during rush hour going one direction though. I was looking at satellite imagery from 1993 on Waterloo GIS, and I didn't realize it was only a 2 lane highway from Fischer-Hallman west, and that the Trussler interchange wasn't built. This highway has gone through a lot of changes (like everything else).
Post #5781 04-28-2010 10:44 PM Urbanomicon Transportation & Infrastructure Moderator Date Feb 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 288 "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Originally Posted by taylortbb They say major rehabilitation and/or widening for the CNR overpass, but they don't go into any more detail. The rapid transit EA calls for that overpass to be completely replaced, as it would have to be tripled in width to accommodate the existing CN line plus two light rail lines. I hope they don't fix it up only to tear it down and replace it 2 years later. I have several more pictures of the construction stages and schedule. There are 8 stages over 3 years. The section of highway near Courtland with the rail lines is the section they are going to be widening first in 2011 (Stage 2 and 3). This section will be completed by winter 2011-2012.
Post #5783 04-28-2010 10:54 PM Waterlooer Member Date Apr 2010 Location K/W Posts 58	Originally Posted by Urbanomicon I have several more pictures of the construction stages and schedule. There are 8 stages over 3 years. The section of highway near Courtland with the rail lines is the section they are going to be widening first in 2011 (Stage 1 and 2). This section will be completed by winter 2011-2012. You don't have to but I would love to see the pictures.
Post #5784 04-28-2010 10:59 PM Urbanomicon Transportation & Infrastructure Moderator Date Feb 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 288 "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Originally Posted by Waterlooer You don't have to but I would love to see the pictures. Here they are. I made them a little bigger than the previous ones so you can read them. Edit: For some reason they don't show up bigger on the forum. In any event, in the legend: Green = Under construction Red = Construction completed (temporary) Blue = Construction completed (permanent) Edit 2: Looks like Photobucket shrunk them.
Post #5785 04-28-2010 11:09 PM Waterlooer Member Date Apr 2010 Location K/W Posts 58	Wow, thanks!
Post #5903 04-30-2010 07:34 PM Duke-of-Waterloo Construction Moderator Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 319	Originally Posted by Waterlooer The next highway expantion should be 85 I guess, it only gets conjected during rush hour going one direction though. Not necessarily. There is also congestion where the collector lanes end around Lancaster heading northbound on Highway 85 through to Bridgeport Road during the morning and afternoon rush. Thanks for all the pictures too Urbanomicon. This project is much larger and complex than I originally thought.
Post #5906 04-30-2010 09:17 PM Urbanomicon Transportation & Infrastructure Moderator Date Feb 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 288 "Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."	Originally Posted by Duke-of-Waterloo Not necessarily. There is also congestion where the collector lanes end around Lancaster heading northbound on Highway 85 through to Bridgeport Road during the morning and afternoon rush. It's interesting; Kitchener's highways have been and are currently being heavily upgraded, but as soon as you cross into Waterloo, all of the upgrades stop. The end of the collector lanes is a good example; the highway goes from eight lanes to four when it enters Waterloo. Maybe the Provincial Government views Waterloo as not large enough to warrant highway upgrades. I would wager that the traffic at Lancaster and the 85 is approximetely the same as Courtland and the 85.
Post #5920 05-01-2010 09:37 AM neonjoe Junior Member Date Feb 2010 Posts 12	I drive through both the courtland bottleneck and the one by lancaster every day. During the mornings, heading into Waterloo and heading back during the evening. There is definitely more traffic on the kitchener end. The Waterloo bottleneck as much due to the volume as to drivers trying to jump the queue. If drivers wouldn't use the collectors as a quick way to pass and take them all the way to almost the Lancaster overpass only to squeeze in and slam on their brakes it would work quite well and the speed in the core lanes would not be affected. The speed quickly increases right past the Lancaster overpass. And cars coming on from Lancaster do not slow things down much more. On the other end many times the traffic is backed up over highway 8. And traffic coming in from highway 8 helps feed this more. The right lane exiting at Courtland is often used by inconsiderate drivers for queue jumping in the same way as the collectors to the east. Unlike the Lancaster area the speed does not increase much past Courtland. There is a substancial amount of traffic entering the highway at Courtland and many cars exiting at Homer Watson, often the slowest part of the drive home is in the two lane westbound section immediately after the Courtland interchange. This work defintely needs to be done, but I do agree that the Waterloo end needs upgrades too, I can see it getting much worse once the new highway 7 is built, a freeway to freeway interchange removes the ramp metering effect that the current signal controlled interchanges have on the flow of traffic onto the highway.
Post #5923 05-01-2010 12:23 PM KLM Junior Member Date May 2010 Posts 29	finally! it was about time to put this in place.I live near Sunrise Plaza and Fisher-Hallman exit/entrance is a mess.That left turn on light is a poker game. I havent look much into detail pics ,would be good solution to make collector between Courtland and Homer-Watson ( something similar with Victoria/Lancaster exit?)just for sake of proximity. In my opinion yes this needs to be upgraded and what I saw I am happy but they would avoid all those expansions if they made full loop around k-w. That way people from stratford,new hamburg and west kitchener dont have to make extra travel to waterloo. Ira-Needles replaces that loop somehow.