Post #4350
04-10-2010 11:43 AM
IEFBR14
Senior Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 302
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The major(*) traffic lights on Bridgeport Rd from the Conestoga Parkway to Caroline St up to Erb are timed such that once you get a green light, as long as you go the speed limit, you'll get all green lights. Speeding does you no good because then you just have to apply your brakes, stop and wait at the next light. Judging by the number of people who speed along this segment, this can't be a well-known traffic calming feature. Perhaps the city should erect signs to point this out.
(*) OTOH the traffic lights on minor intersections like Bluevale and Ellis are push button activated and seem to operate independently of the other lights. Why can't they synchronize those lights as well? |
Post #4355
04-10-2010 12:39 PM
Urbanomicon
Transportation & Infrastructure Moderator
Date Feb 2010 Location Kitchener, Ontario Posts 284
"Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane." |
This is getting relatively common in larger cities. It is known as a "Green Wave".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_wave |
Post #4360
04-10-2010 01:34 PM
IEFBR14
Senior Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 302
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 Originally Posted by Urbanomicon  This is getting relatively common in larger cities. It is known as a "Green Wave". The one on Bridgeport Rd has been in operation for many years, perhaps even a couple of decades, long before that term was coined.
Green waves represent a rare win-win-win situation in that they make for a less stressful driving experience, a safer environment for pedestrians and cyclists who cross them and reduce fuel consumption, pollution and brake wear. It puzzles me why the green movement doesn't make a greater effort to promote them, especially when so few drivers seem to understand how they work.
BTW this isn't anything new. Back in the 1970s I could often drive along Weber St from University Ave all the way to Fairway Rd without hitting a red light so long as I kept to the speed limit. Of course in those days there were fewer lights and a lot less traffic on Weber. |
Post #4378
04-10-2010 04:56 PM
taylortbb
Member
Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, Ontario Posts 97
Taylor Byrnes |
Originally Posted by IEFBR14 It puzzles me why the green movement doesn't make a greater effort to promote them, especially when so few drivers seem to understand how they work.. I think the reason is that green wave traffic lights favour private automobiles over transit, which is really the greener choice. The iXpress could reduce its travel time by a not insignificant amount with better signal priority. The only reason it doesn't is that traffic engineering here is focused on helping cars move faster. As a result the iXpress has a very low level of priority and only on a small number of corridors.
The plan for the 2011 budget is to expand transit signal priority transmitters to more (all?) of the GRT fleet. Personally I'm hoping they increase the level of signal priority and expand it to more intersections. Obviously not emergency vehicle level priority, but higher. It speeds transit vehicles and simultaneously slows private vehicles, a strong transit incentive. It also likely represents an improvement for cyclists, as the green wave timing required for cycling speeds is much closer to the one required for transit than it is to the one for cars. |
Post #4400
04-10-2010 07:56 PM
DKsan
Junior Member
Date Apr 2010 Posts 26
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Is there a way to find out if streets are "green wave" or not clearly? |
Post #4439
04-11-2010 03:43 AM
mpd618
Senior Member
Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 290
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Originally Posted by IEFBR14 Green waves represent a rare win-win-win situation in that they make for a less stressful driving experience, a safer environment for pedestrians and cyclists who cross them and reduce fuel consumption, pollution and brake wear. It puzzles me why the green movement doesn't make a greater effort to promote them, especially when so few drivers seem to understand how they work. There's no win for pedestrians, cyclists, or transit users in Bridgeport and Erb Streets being one-way, or one-way streets in general. And I don't follow how green waves are any better for crossing. There's also downsides to cars having the green light and an open road -- drivers will go as fast as the road suggests, regardless of incentives down the road (no pun intended). Unless the roads are designed for reasonable urban speeds (which these aren't), I think a green wave would increase speeds and make a worse pedestrian and cyclist experience. They are not traffic-calming measures. |
Post #4446
04-11-2010 09:18 AM
IEFBR14
Senior Member
Date Mar 2010 Location H2OWC Posts 302
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Originally Posted by mpd618 There's no win for pedestrians, cyclists, or transit users in Bridgeport and Erb Streets being one-way, or one-way streets in general. I started this thread after observing that even after years of operation, car drivers don't seem to "get it" when it comes to the green wave down Bridgeport Rd. If they did, then it would be much easier to cross such thoroughfares because there would be almost no traffic between successive waves of traffic. "Almost" because there would still be some traffic turning onto those those streets. But even that could be handled with crosswalks whose signals are synchronized with traffic lights in order to maintain the wave.
There's also downsides to cars having the green light and an open road -- drivers will go as fast as the road suggests, regardless of incentives down the road (no pun intended). Unless the roads are designed for reasonable urban speeds (which these aren't), I think a green wave would increase speeds and make a worse pedestrian and cyclist experience. They are not traffic-calming measures. They aren't IMO because few drivers understand how they work. If there were signs to identify a street as "green wave signaled" with a corresponding campaign to explain how that works and why it's futile to speed, perhaps we'd be more successful in using green waves to calm traffic along major arteries.
Consider that when you exit the Conestoga Parkway heading west on University Ave, there's a sign with an amber light before Lincoln Rd. When it's flashing you know that the traffic light at Lincoln will turn red before you get there. In that situation there's no reason to speed down University (at least as far as Lincoln.) You might as well lay off the gas pedal and coast to the red light. By my observation that signal is effective in slowing traffic down. This sort of signal device is very common on the west coast, especially on Vancouver Island, in enforcing speed limits without the need for cops, photo radar and the like. So yes, it is possible to calm traffic on major roads. |
Post #4447
04-11-2010 09:34 AM
panamaniac
Member
Date Mar 2010 Posts 88
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Is King Street through Preston the kind of synchronized system you have in mind? For as long as I can remember, it has been possible to hit only green lights all the way through town as long as you drive at about 40kph. I have never really known whether it was intentionally set up that way - you have to drive pretty slowly to avoid red lights. |
Post #4449
04-11-2010 11:05 AM
kwliving
Member
Date Dec 2009 Location Westmount/Belmont Villiage Posts 79
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Originally Posted by mpd618 I think a green wave would increase speeds and make a worse pedestrian and cyclist experience. They are not traffic-calming measures. The point is, if you speed, you will only arrive at a red light while the person who is not speeding will pass you as you jackrabbit your start to the next light. It is very effective even without a educational campaign. People catch on.
In the next few years, I hope they get rid of the one-way streets in Uptown, so the "green wave" may have to stop at Weber Street.
Erb Street used to be "green wave" out of town too, but is no longer. |
Post #4453
04-11-2010 12:27 PM
garthdanlor
Senior Member
Date Mar 2010 Location Uglyopolis Posts 132
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I fairly regularly find myself getting back from work in Toronto at 2amish, and I've found that you can catch the "green wave" on King St. in Kitchener (getting off Highway 8) if you drive roughly the speed limit or just under. Sometimes I can make it all the way to Green St (where I turn off) without a red while other times I have a stop or 2 (depends on traffic). Much faster than Charles St, where I get stopped at most lights. |
Post #4458
04-11-2010 01:11 PM
Duke-of-Waterloo
Construction Moderator
Date Jan 2010 Location Waterloo, ON Posts 226
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The lights on Erb Street from Caroline Street to the Expressway are timed the same way as Bridgeport. I always thought this should be a media campaign against speeding...I always drive 50 km/h on Erb to the Expressway, and just shake my head as drivers speed past me and then I pass them at the red lights they got caught at and are just turning green for me. At rush hour, this concept doesn't work so well though when Erb is much busier.
You can get to the expressway much more quickly from west Waterloo on Erb Street than University Avenue, due to the timing of the lights. |
Post #4463
04-11-2010 03:27 PM
TripleQ
Member
Date Jan 2010 Posts 37
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Someone once called Erb and Bridgeport the world's longest on and off ramps. I wish I remember who it was because those names have stuck with me since.
As for those amber warning lights on University, if you drive fast enough when they start flashing, you can catch the green before it turns red  |